In 2019, I stood my ground on allowing discussion of the CW ND television series, despite strong opposition that came from quite a few collectors. On May 31 of this year, I posted the following to the Collecting Vintage Series Books group on Facebook.
We welcome discussion of all media based on our legacy vintage series. This means that modern adaptations of legacy vintage series are fine to discuss, regardless of format or whether the adaptation is faithful to the source material.
I remind you of this because the fourth and final season of Nancy Drew premieres tonight on The CW. I am following through on a promise that I made to myself in late 2019: I will not allow bullies to prevent me from allowing discussion of an adaptation of a legacy vintage series just because they don't approve of it.
I was treated rather badly in late 2019 when Nancy Drew premiered. I received some pretty hateful private messages. I was compared to Joseph Stalin. That was when I promised myself that I would not back down. It is reasonable that a group devoted to Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys should be able to allow discussion of modern adaptations of Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys.
The series finale aired on August 23. I posted the following right after I made my final episode post.
And it's a wrap! I have fulfilled my promise to myself that I made in late 2019. I was bullied about allowing and facilitating discussion of this series in this group. I promised myself that I would post about every single episode in the series until it was over. And so I have.
I am very proud of myself for following through, and I have felt slightly uncomfortable the entire time. Every single time I posted about the latest ND episode, I felt discomfort. Yes, all 62 times. I knew what some people were thinking. But I didn't let it stop me. I felt strongly that a group devoted to Nancy Drew and similar series books ought to be able to discuss a Nancy Drew television show. I remained firm.
I've been reflecting about this, and I went through my private messages on Facebook from 2019. I share some of my remarks here with you. All content in this post was written by me. You don't get to see the comments that were made to me, but my responses will give you the gist.
I refer to different people by the letters A, B, C, and so on, to maintain their privacy and to distinguish them from each other.
A few notes...
Since my comments are from private messages, I do make some pretty strong statements and am a bit unfiltered. I may offend those of you who didn't like the show. To be clear, my frustration was with the people who were attempting to beat me into submission, who were also attempting to keep anyone from discussing the show online. I never cared that some people didn't like the show; I was annoyed with how aggressive and mean a subset of those people were. It was wrong of them to act like they did.
I refer to Person Q as "nuts." This person was unhinged. She cussed all over the place and made extreme statements that were rather shocking. The behavior by that person was particularly awful. What happened in late 2019 was the worst behavior from series book fans since the flame wars of the Nancy Drew newsgroup from the late 1990s.
I mention being pleased about certain people flouncing out of the group. It's a funny thing when people threaten to leave a group. They act like they will be hurting the moderator. Instead, difficult people brighten a moderator's day when they flounce out of the group, since they will then no longer be a problem.
The story begins with the script being passed around between collectors in early 2019. Some of us read the pilot episode script long before the first episode was even filmed.
February 21, 2019, to Person F
The sex scene will freak everyone out! They will die. They can't deal with Sophia Lillis' hair or clothing, so they will absolutely have conniption fits. It might be the end of ND fandom.
February 22, 2019, to Person F
The story is good, especially at the end when Nancy realizes that all is not as she thought. Making Nancy a few years older would make the mature scenes easier to accept. At the same time, keeping her a teen is important to the story, since she still lives with her father and feels betrayed by him. But regardless, I hope this is filmed and that we actually get to see it.
The story reminds me of the recent comic book series, which I have not gotten back to finishing. It's like they got some ideas from it, especially the Bayport part.
July 19, 2019, to Person A
I agree! This is going to be really good! I SO hope that the show is successful. It's important that the show appeal to people other than us, and this show has everything needed to do that.
August 9, 2019, to Person E
I have read [the script of the pilot episode]. The reaction is going to be bad, and some people are going to flip out completely. They are already upset, and they do not know what is actually in the show.
I have been following the discussions in the ND Book Fans group, and I am getting increasingly concerned. I notice another argument transpired today with someone leaving the group. Someone else left the group a few days ago. I don't understand why people leave groups instead of just blocking the people who annoy them.
The show premiered on October 9, 2019.
October 9, 2019, to Person F
I haven't checked the group yet since I was watching the show. The show was exactly what I expected. I had read the script and seen previews, so no surprises.
(later)
I'm beginning to read the comments. I don't get why they are so rigid in their thinking and why things like George being bossy are so annoying to them. I thought George was bossy at times in the books...
(later)
[Person B] is surprised that I support the show. He has no clue about me and what I think. He wrote on another post "0% Nancy Drew." He has no idea.
October 10, 2019, to Person FThe fan reaction has definitely reached full-blown meltdown status in the ND group. Ooh, I need to check the game fans group again. I haven't been there since last night.
(later)
And some of the language! One person posted about ND having a "f*** buddy" and someone else said she's a "b****." They aren't taking this well.
And their comments about the morality of the sex is out of line. A few people declared that they wouldn't watch the show again.
And I'm sick of people putting down young people, saying that they don't read books, etc. I did respond on one comment thread stating that a number of my students bring paper books to class to read. So annoying to read judgmental statements.
(later)
Several people say it isn't like ANY of the books. I disagree. Aside from the sex, I think the show isn't that different from the Files, which admittedly I haven't read in years.
(later)
The game fans seem to be a lot more sane about this. There are complaints, but they aren't coming across as raving maniacs like the people in the book group.
(later)
Yes, the behavior in the book group is embarrassing. If people from the show are there, they will think we are all insane.
(later)
[Person Q] is nuts! I was thinking of Taylor Swift's "You Need to Calm Down" and someone posted the gif!
October 11, 2019, to Person FSome of these people are way over-dramatic. A few claim that the show has ruined Nancy Drew for them.
I made note of a couple comments I saw earlier today. One person: "But I just clutched my blue tweed very first Nancy Drew as I watched." Wow.
October 13, 2019, to Person FI haven't seen a discussion of the sex go well anywhere that I've seen. People are incapable of having a rational discussion about that aspect of the show, just like with politics.
I came up with the idea to ban the sex discussion part of the show way back in June but didn't tell anyone. I was originally going to warn people before the first show aired, but then I decided just to see what would happen. Now I know and am not surprised. They can't handle it.
October 13, 2019, to Collecting Group moderators
[Person G]'s post on the ND show bears watching. We already have a statement about the immorality of premarital sex and another one disagreeing, and that strays into religion and politics. Not good. I have made two comments in an attempt to prevent the comments from getting worse.
If the post deteriorates into a flame war in the next few hours, please close comments. It's skating on the edge right now. A little trolling is going on by [Person H], who is not a regular. Some other comments are also problematic.
(later)
Right, I don't think ND Book Fans is banning such posts. People just shouldn't be hateful to each other and shouldn't be cussing like they were.
I'm concerned about the comments regarding the morality of premarital sex, since that borders on religion and politics, which we do not allow. So far, the comments are going overall okay, but this will continue to bear watching.
This may sound heavy-handed, but this is what I'd like to do as we will be dealing with this for months if the show doesn't get canceled (and I hope it doesn't).
I would like to make a rule that states that fans can discuss any aspect of the show except for the sex. What do you think? Does that sound reasonable or insane?
I don't want to read comments for and against premarital sex every single week as this show airs. We already know that [Person I] will not drop it, nor will others who are strongly on the other side of the issue. That discussion needs to occur somewhere else and not under our watch.
I don't like the inclusion of sex in the show, but this is just fiction. It's just a show. She isn't real. It's not productive for us to debate whether she should or shouldn't every single week.
And [Person J] just called [Person G] "twisted." We won't be able to leave the post open much longer.
(later)
As others have stated in our group and elsewhere, it's the sex that seems to enrage people more than anything else. Ever since I read the script early this year, I have been worried about it. I originally wanted to ban discussion of sex in this show before the first show aired, but I never followed through with it. So that's how I feel about discussing that aspect of the show. I don't want to touch it at all.
(later)
So how about the post gets closed, and I write a post stating that no discussion of Nancy Drew having sex is allowed. This is a ridiculous rule, but ridiculous times require ridiculous measures.
(later)
I think that we are going to run into problems again when the second show airs. This is my current plan. Let me know if you have any other ideas.
Each Wednesday before the show airs, I can start a discussion thread for the new episode. Discussion will be limited to that post. The post will include a warning about not discussing any sex scenes that might appear in the show. The warning will also state that all comments about the sex will be deleted.
And then we will have to see if that idea will work. If not, discussing the show can be banned, but I'd like to allow it if we can keep the controversy out of the group. This is just so silly that some people can't be reasonable.
There are actually some comments in the ND Book Fans group where people state that last week's episode ruined all of their memories of ND. That's crazy!
October 14, 2019, to Collecting Group moderatorsYou might have noticed that I did not remove [Person J]'s comment calling [Person G] "twisted." I think it is good for people to see exactly what was starting to happen so that they know why I banned discussion of sex in the group.
I noticed that three people left the group after I banned discussion of sex: [Person I] (he has been a problem in several ways, so good riddance), [Person K], and [Person L].
All three complained about the sex, so they must be annoyed that they cannot complain more. Why can't they just ignore the show? Why is that so hard?
I assume that the next show will have sex in it. If anyone complains about or mentions the sex, then their comment or post should be deleted. We must take a hard line on this.
October 16, 2019, to Person E
I appreciate your comments. I'm now planning two posts for tonight, one for fans and one for people who are not fans. This might not work, but it's worth a try.
(later)
I'm back to just one post and no restriction other than no discussion of sexual content. We'll see what happens. I also just had to kick out someone who mocked me. Such fun times. Your thoughtful comments are always appreciated.
October 16, 2019, to Collecting Group moderatorsThe show is about Nancy Drew, and I have always stated that all versions of Nancy Drew are within our guidelines, just like all versions have always been covered by publications like Yellowback Library.
(later)
It's just that we have always accepted other versions like Pamela Sue Martin. If we are not going to allow this one, then all filmed versions should be tossed out.
The Nancy Drew Book Fans group is pretty much on its own due to the Sleuth convention [currently in progress]. [The moderators] aren't available to moderate it. I want to give people just one place to discuss the show in peace.
(later)
I just kicked [Person M] out and banned him. This is the first time I've ever been mocked with "baaah!"
(later)
I just placed the group on moderation so that we don't get a bunch of threads about the show. Also, we're all going to have to sleep. That won't stop bad comments on existing posts, but new posts will have to be approved.
[Person N] also just suggested we stick to books only. I'm not responding, but if we did that, then we shouldn't discuss Bonita Granville or any other version, should we?
If there is one thread and one thread only, I continue not to understand why they can't just ignore it.
(later)
I also don't want to cave in for anything in the world at this point. I don't want to give them the satisfaction of beating me down. We should be able to discuss a Nancy Drew series.
(later)
The complainers are now jumping in, and they aren't referring to the new show, since it hasn't aired. It's interesting how we are expected to put up with them, and how dare we ask them to hold back.
October 17, 2019, to Collecting Group moderators
I agree. I read [Person B]'s comment slowly last night, twice, to see if he went too far. He was using veiled language to get away with it. He knew that my guidelines forbid terms like "adult situations," so he made it more vague.
I think he will end up leaving the group or being kicked out before too much longer. I expect he won't be able to resist being blatant, and I will offend him, causing him to leave, or I will kick him out. The clock is ticking...
October 17, 2019, to Person A
I'm getting a lot of flak over allowing discussion of the show, and I will not back down. I think it has gone okay so far. Some people say that the group should only be about BOOKS, so the show doesn't fit. But those same people don't mind Pamela Sue Martin and Bonita Granville. They just don't want a version discussed if they don't like it. People are so unreasonable. We've lost at least five members this week plus the one I kicked out yesterday.
(later response)
I appreciate your support. I really do. I feel like the discussion has gone really well. We had one minor skirmish last night, and the person who started that comment thread then deleted it when it didn't need to come down. But at least that person is trying to avoid causing trouble.
[Person B] just can't keep from saying something. I know what he meant and he veiled it to fit the rule, and I read it twice to make certain that he wasn't going too far. At least he didn't use "adult behavior" like he did days ago. He's one of those who said the group is about BOOKS only.
Even though the naysayers claim that the sex is the reason they don't like the show, they wouldn't like it anyway. The only ND that would be good enough is if Nancy could jump off of the cover of 1930 Old Clock and into a movie. She would then have to act exactly like in the book and say the same lines.
October 17, 2019, to Person X
I'm digging in, standing my ground, even though some people cannot stand seeing the show discussed in the Collecting group. They are now saying that the group is only about the BOOKS and that the show should not be allowed.
If so, then Bonita Granville and Pamela Sue Martin's versions should be banned, right? I'm not picking and choosing which versions to allow. It's either ALL or NONE. I'm going with ALL.
We are losing members. Two more people left last night since seeing the episode discussion. I don't care, and I actually hope more complainers leave.
I also got mocked yesterday in the group over politics, so I banned that person. Fun times.
I think the discussion in the Collecting group is going well, and that's why I want one each week.
October 27, 2019, to Person A
I was surprised to see a really positive comment about the ND Diaries series recently in the ND Book Fans group from some random fan. No matter what the version, some people like it. I personally don't like the scared, self-doubting Nancy in the Diaries series, but I'm glad that there are people who really enjoy those books. It's good for the brand.
November 1, 2019, to Person F
[Person D] does have a point about the supernatural events, especially since a few people have now commented that they are losing interest because of that aspect. However, I maintain that most of these people would have lost interest anyway, supernatural or not. I will just go with whatever craziness happens in the show. I'm making a weekly event out of watching it, and I hate television.
November 2, 2019, to Person F
The supernatural events don't bother me, although having them is unusual for ND. Whatever they do, I'm fine. The characterization of Nancy meets the one requirement that is most important to me: she is strong and fearless. The Diaries series bothers me because Nancy calls herself a "wuss" and is scared, nervous, or self-doubting much of the time. This show doesn't make Nancy weak, so I have no complaints.
November 6, 2019, to Person F
It's been quite a day. First, [Person R] posted about the sex in the first episode, which he just watched. He didn't like it. That post went bad fast.
[Person B] complained about how ND has its own group, blah blah blah.
[Person S] tagged me. My favorite part was [Person T]'s response of "Mommmm!" and my reply of "Mom has arrived."
I closed comments. Some hours pass and [Person R] deletes his post.
Then [Person U] posts about the post that was deleted. That one is still there and you can read it. I closed comments to it since it was going bad.
Sometime after that, [Person B] had it and flounced out of the group.
November 21, 2019, to Person F
I am enjoying the show. I just go with whatever they do. It doesn't bother me. The spirits thing was jarring at first, but now I fully embrace that Nancy is surrounded by spirits with weird stuff happening. I find it fun.
And also, people said that the CW show wouldn't bring in new ND book fans. The post from today in the ND Book Fans group proves that wrong.
(later)
It's funny that the show has almost no sex right now - implied, yes - but Nancy hasn't gotten any action in a while. Instead, the show has gone full-on supernatural. That is bothering some people who are still watching. If most people hadn't ditched after the first show, they'd be ranting about the spirits.
A few months ago, I spent a fairly significant amount of time flipping through the NDGD books until I located where Nancy is arrested for breaking into a business. It was that important to me to prove that Nancy has been arrested in the books. This was because of the comments on the Hidden Staircase movie about how Nancy has never picked locks, broken into places, or been arrested.
November 22, 2019, to Person F
I don't like horror films that feature blood, gore, or anything like that. I have no interest in shows like CSI because I don't want to watch autopsies and yucky stuff. So far, this show hasn't taken that aspect too far. The morgue scene was icky, but we didn't see much. As long as they don't take it further than that, I will be fine. Even if they do, I'm still going to watch. I want to see how this plays out.
I find it interesting how many people are bailing because of the supernatural stuff. And at the start, the problem was the sex. It turns out that the sex wasn't the real problem after all.
November 25, 2019, to Person A
[Person C] gets on my nerves big time, and he's been doing it for 17 years, at least. I still haven't forgotten his comments in the Sleuths group in 2002 about the Maggie Lawson pilot. I responded with my view, and he proceeded to twist my words to support his view.
I've decided to just skim what he and [Person D] say about the show. It's unnecessary to repeat the same statements over and over and over...
[Person D] didn't want the show discussed in the group, and I doubt that [Person C] does. They might be trying to wear me down via the negativity. I'm not backing down for anything in the world. I will create a post for every new episode, even if I just discuss the show with myself.
November 25, 2019, to Collecting Group moderators
I'm actually overall okay right now, all things considered. The group isn't really bothering me. The [Person O] thing was a problem, but it was just a temporary problem.
I keep thinking about the CW show and how I KNEW that we could discuss it in the group. Several people thought I was nuts, [Person D] included. He kept discouraging me. I was right! We CAN discuss the show in a calm fashion. See? I knew it! I'm pretty happy that we can discuss the show, and people can express their varying opinions. Not everyone likes it, but that's okay!
December 3, 2019, to Person FThis show is not going to ruin ND. It doesn't even have that good of ratings. Goodness. I doubt most people know that the show exists. I was just told in my blog that I am the [only] reason that they know about the show.
December 5, 2019, to Person FIn the Collecting group, [Person C] made a comment on the new episode post about being sad that some of us actually like the show. I made a statement similar to ones that [Person P] has made in the ND group.
I feel like some people are spoiling for a fight with those of us who enjoy the show. At the least, they want to convince us not to like it. It's not going to work.
December 13, 2019, to Person WI also think [Person C] is hoping to make the discussion posts go away by trying to pick a fight each week. I told someone else recently that I'm going to keep posting the discussion threads for each new episode regardless of how many people are against me. I feel like a martyr. I took a lot of heat for allowing the show to be discussed while not allowing certain people to preach at us about premarital sex. I'm not backing down for anything in the world. People can be so immature.
December 13, 2019, to Person PIt is really hard to be fair and not favor some people over others... I want to allow people to say that they don't like the show, but it is really hard to know when they are going too far. And I really can't tell people not to be negative, unfortunately.
And I don't think either you or [Person W] was picking a fight. I meant that [Person C] seems to be trying to pick one. My stance is to ignore him.
December 13, 2019, to Collecting Group moderatorsJust letting you know that I'm dealing with the minor fuss in the television show discussion thread. I'm fine with going it alone on anything with the CW show since I have vowed to do weekly discussions no matter what. I feel like a martyr.
December 27, 2019, to Person FThey mostly are behaving. In the Collecting group, a couple of people have taken offense at the cover of an old Sugar Creek Gang book (Christian themed) with a raccoon cornered in a tree by hunters. We were informed by [Person V] and someone else that hunting raccoons is against Christianity. Then someone else pointed out the hunting references in the Bible. I deleted the comments, which angered [Person V]. How can she think that getting on her soapbox in the group is appropriate?
January 24, 2020, to Person F
And then in the ND Book Fans group earlier today, someone threw out the "real ND" statement, since of course none of the new versions are the real ND. That's actually a bit offensive. I loved the most recent ND Diaries book and really enjoy the modern versions, at least when they are written by good writers who know not to have ND scared all the time.
.......................................
What I've shared covers the bulk of the early fights about the series. This shows my thinking and how I doubled down, making the CW ND show discussion the hill that I would die on.
It saddens me that many fans won't allow us to have some happiness in discussing an interesting current project. Series book fandom won't last for many more years. I believe that we are currently at the beginning of the end. It will take some 20 years for it to be over, but that day is coming.
Why must anything new be trashed into oblivion, even when there is nothing much wrong with it? Even the 2019 movie with Sophia Lillis was trashed, and that movie was completely wholesome. Our fandom weakens itself and sucks the joy out of everything.
Even though I initiated discussion of all 62 episodes, little discussion occurred. I'm confident that most of the people who were watching the show were fearful of commenting in the group. That is sad.
