Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #40

I spotted a few listings which had interesting buyer questions.

LOT of 48 Vintage Nancy Drew Books Carolyn Keene

The seller first received these questions and answered them.

Question: Hello. What is the last title listed on the back cover of The Hidden Staircase? And what is the last Nancy Drew title listed on the interior book list near the front of the book? Also, does The Secret of Red Gate Farm have a $1 box printed on the front cover in the upper right corner? How many pages are in your copy of The Clue in the Diary? And what is the last title listed on the back cover of The Clue in the Crossword Cipher? Thank you.

Answer: What is the last title listed on the back cover of The Hidden Staircase? The phantom of Pine Hill And what is the last Nancy Drew title listed on the interior book list near the front of the book? The Mystery of 99 steps Also, does The Secret of Red Gate Farm have a $1 box printed on the front cover in the upper right corner? No but it has a $1.25 sticker on front How many pages are in your copy of The Clue in the Diary? 174 And what is the last title listed on the back cover of The Clue in the Crossword Cipher? The Clue in the Crossword Cipher (This book has some writing on back cover that checks off the books read)

Question: Can you tell me the title of thevlast nancy Drew book listed on the back cover of Clue in the Crossword Cipher?? Thanks

Answer: It is The Clue in the Crossword Cipher. This book has some writing on back cover-check marks stating what books had been read in the series.

I am glad that the seller took the time to answer every question correctly. So often, when sellers are asked multiple questions, they ignore most of them.

The next day, the seller received a question about the previous questions.

Question: Hello, why do you think the people are asking about what is the last title in a list? Do you think it is to see if it was the last one written? Most interested in this answer. Why was the person asking how many pages in the Diary book? Has that book been added to in the story? Thank you

Answer: I think it must be something to do with the Age of the book. Probably depending on the answer it may be a first Run Edition that would be worth more. Just my guess......

The seller had a pretty good idea why the questions were being asked. More specifically, both potential buyers were asking about Crossword Cipher in order to determine whether the book offered in the lot was the first printing. The first printing lists to Phantom of Pine Hill on the back cover.

Regarding Clue in the Diary, the buyer was trying to determine whether the book was the scarce first picture cover printing with the original text. With just 174 pages, the book offered in this lot was the common revised text picture cover.

Splendid copy of Nancy Drew 1932/33 1st printing Password Larkspur Lane Keene

Question: What is distinctive about this copy that helps you to know it is a first printing? Thank you.

Answer: Greetigs, It states it in the bok on the title page. I will be posting a few more pics.

This question and answer is very interesting. The copyright page is the reason that the book is considered the first printing, but not because the copyright page states that the book is the first printing. Confusing, yes?

Grosset and Dunlap never identified Nancy Drew books as first printings on the copyright page. This particular printing had what was probably intended to be the copyright page for some other Grosset and Dunlap book placed in it by mistake. I believe that David Farah identified this printing as the first by going under the assumption that a mistake would have been made with the very first printing and corrected for the second printing.

Now this is where I am going to go into some speculation of my own. How do we really know which came first? The first and second printings of Larkspur Lane, as identified by David Farah, are identical in every single way except for the copyright page. The first and second printing dust jackets are identical and are the only jackets for Larkspur Lane which have the ads on the reverse side of the jacket.

I believe that both printings are the same printing, as in the very first printing. It's just that some scattered copies of the first printing happen to have the wrong copyright page. Remember that the price guides are based on speculation, just like what I am doing, and we don't really know for sure what happened nearly 80 years ago.

Note: This is a reminder to those of you who are way too sensitive that these comments are in no way intended to criticize David Farah or his guide. Do not read anything into this post that is not here.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #39

Nancy Drew #1 Secret Old Clock Tweed Original Text DJ

I was asked, "What is the publication date?" This type of question bothers me since I can never be certain what the buyer means.

My response follows.

You can tell how old a Nancy Drew book is by looking at the last title listed on the dust jacket and inside the book, which is information I always provide in the description. This book has a dust jacket that lists to Witch Tree Symbol, and Witch Tree Symbol was published in 1955, so the jacket is from 1955. The book lists to Velvet Mask, and Velvet Mask was published in 1953, so the book was printed in 1953. The book and jacket are slightly mismatched, which happens sometimes. Follow the links on my eBay About Me page for more information about telling how old a Nancy Drew book is. Most sellers do not provide the information you need, so buyers have to educate themselves. I hope this helps.

I was then asked, "Thank you, I appreciate your information. But on the title page of the book, isn't there a publication date?"

I gave this response.

The vast majority of Grosset and Dunlap books bear only the original copyright date, which appears on the copyright page. Grosset and Dunlap never printed a date on the title page. I have several thousand Grosset and Dunlap books in my possession, and none of them have dates on the title page.

Grosset and Dunlap books do not have publication dates stated anywhere in the book, except for a few oddball printings from the early 1970s and most all printings from 1985 to the present day. Those books are the only ones in which one can refer to a date printed inside the book as a reference to the age of the book.

For all other cases, we must rely on the last title listed on the dust jacket list or on an interior list that is not on the copyright page.

For the very few Grosset and Dunlap books that have printing dates stated, those dates are always on the copyright page, which is the reverse side of the title page. However, as I stated, only a few scattered books have a stated printing date.

Grosset and Dunlap was a company that printed in such a way to keep costs down, so they changed the list of titles in the series ad rather than anything else about the book. They would have to have changed the printing plates, thereby raising costs, in order to change any stated publication dates. As a result, Grosset and Dunlap avoided that practice except for in a few oddball printings.

You probably should look at my Nancy Drew guide which is on my other user ID. In that guide, I explain about how the copyright pages were not updated.

http://reviews.ebay.com/Nancy-Drew-Collecting-
Tips_W0QQugidZ10000000001068721

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Immediately after sending the second response, I had a hunch that I may have missed the point of the question and checked my listing. I sent another response.

Perhaps I have confused you because I did not explicitly state in the listing "copyright 1930." I stated that the book has the "original 1930 text with 25 chapters." The book is copyrighted 1930 on the copyright page, and all copies of this title printed from 1930 through 1959 have the 1930 copyright date. The copyright date was not changed until the 1959 revised text was published. Since this book has the 1930 copyright date, it has the 1930 original text. Since the jacket lists to a 1955 title, the jacket was printed in 1955. Since the book lists to a 1953 title, the book was printed in 1953.

I did not receive another response, so I have no idea what the buyer needed and whether I answered the question. I am left feeling frustrated. As almost always happens with these types of questions, the buyer did not buy the book.

Out of curiosity, I checked the buyer's bidding history, and this person bought two revised text picture covers of #2 and #3 on the same day that I was questioned. I hope that the buyer got what she wanted, since I don't have a clue.

I also am left with the nagging feeling that no matter how I present my listings, a certain percentage of buyers will still not understand. For that reason, I will continue to do what I do and not worry about it.

Nancy Drew Values Part 2 - Picture Covers

While the values of the dust-jacketed edition Nancy Drew books seem to have gone down, the values of most picture cover edition Nancy Drew books have increased dramatically. Many of the picture cover edition Nancy Drew books now sell for much higher prices than the values in Farah's Guide.

The first printing picture cover editions, which list to Fire Dragon on the back cover and to Dancing Puppet on the inside when an interior list is present, seem to be the exception. I do not find that these books necessarily sell for the values quoted in Farah's Guide, which range from around $15 to around $25. Sometimes the books do sell for the quoted values, but I have often seen them sell for less.

The average picture cover book from the 1960s that is not a first printing picture cover is valued at around $6 in Farah's Guide. I find that people will eagerly pay between $6 and $10 for these books. Many of the current collectors are more concerned with getting original text books from the 1960s rather than with getting the very first picture cover printing.

The first printing picture cover of #7, which is the only 1932 text printing in picture cover, is valued at $50. I suspect that the actual value for one in nice shape is quite a bit higher. Most copies of this book that surface are in rough shape. I have seen several of them sell at around $50 that are in rough shape, so one in nice shape should sell for $75 or more. The second printing picture cover of #7, which is the first printing of the 1962 text, is valued at $25. $25 is significantly higher than what the second printing picture cover book normally brings.

The first printing of #41 with the tri-fold ad is valued at $100. I have seen it sell for $25 up to around $130, or possibly a little higher. It is hard to nail down an exact value for this volume, so $100 is a good estimate.

The second printing of #41, which is just like the first printing except that it is missing the tri-fold ad, is valued at $25. I find that the second printing usually sells for no more than around $10. People want the tri-fold.

The "man with pipe" cover art of Broken Locket went through three printings. The first two printings have the 1934 text while the third printing has the 1965 text. Farah assigns the first and third printings a value of $50, and the second printing a value of $20. I find the "man with pipe" artwork to be no longer that difficult to find, and it seldom sells for anywhere near $50.

The third printing of the "man with pipe" cover art that has the 1965 text is much more difficult to find than the other two printings. For that reason, if the first printing picture cover is actually worth the quoted $50, then the third printing should be worth much more. However, most people do not seem to be that interested in the 1965 text version except for advanced collectors, so perhaps the values of the first and third printings are about the same, and not anywhere near $50.

The first printing of #44 Crossword Cipher lists to Pine Hill and is valued at $30 in Farah's Guide. One recently sold for $104.72, and it is extremely hard to find, so I am confident that it is worth much more than $30. On a side note, I have a Crossword Cipher that lists to Pine Hill but has an interior list not mentioned in Farah's Guide. I'm not sure what I have, and others need to be careful about copies listing to Pine Hill until more is known.

The picture cover books from the 1970s are valued at $5 in Farah's Guide. Many sellers price these books below the current value when Farah's Guide is cited. I have sold many of these books for around $6 to $9. These books are now in demand due to the age of the current collectors.

The 1975 final cover art for #34 is somewhat scarce. The first printing of this art is valued at $9 in Farah's Guide. I sold one recently for $19.99, and it did not take long to sell.

The first printing of the 1976 cover art for #17 is valued at $15, and it seems to be a bit more scarce than the 1975 cover art to #34. For that reason, this book is probably worth more than $20. It comes up for sale quite infrequently.

The subsequent printings of the 1976 cover art to #17 and the 1975 cover art to #34 are valued at just $5 in Farah's Guide. I have sold copies of these printings of these two books for $6 to $10 each.

The first printing of #55 is valued at $25, and this is fairly accurate, although it sometimes sells for both higher and lower prices. The second printing of #55 is valued at $5, and it usually sells for $10 and up.

The first printing of #56, which lists Triple Hoax in plain text, is valued at $25. I have seen it sell for $35 to $55 numerous times. The second printing of #56, which lists Triple Hoax in italics, is valued at $12. It frequently sells for $25 to $35. The third printing of #56, which lists Old Clock as the next book, is valued at $5. It sells for $15 to $25, and occasionally higher. The printings of #56 with double oval endpapers are valued at $3, and I have seen them sell for $15 to $25.

All of the double oval endpapers picture covers from the early 1980s are valued at $3.00 each. I recently sold a lot of 40 picture covers with double oval endpapers for $250, which was the result of a bidding war. This averaged out to $6.25 per book, plus postage. While this was a high price, it does indicate that the books with double oval endpapers are likely now worth more than $3.00 each.

While the tweed books with dust jackets seem to have fallen in value, the picture cover editions have risen. The current buyers of Nancy Drew books apparently are more interested in buying the picture cover editions. While the printings with the original text from the 1960s are still more desirable, the printings from the 1970s with the revised text are now more in demand than they were a few years ago.

Nancy Drew Values Part 1 - Dust Jackets

Many people cite the values in Farah's Guide when they list their Nancy Drew books for sale. In fact, price guides drive the values of items. If a noted authority states that the items are worth a certain amount, then it must be so. When I still actively followed the values of comic books, I remember that prices spiked each year shortly after the latest Overstreet guide was released. Were the comic books suddenly worth more, or were people reacting to the guide's statement of the books' value? I contend that people were raising their prices based on the new values listed in the guide.

This same phenomenon has occurred with Farah's Guide. I remember when Farah first released the 11th and 12th editions, sellers' prices spiked to match his values. Were the books suddenly worth more? I don't think so. In truth, the books were perceived to be worth more.

Before I continue, I want to make clear that this commentary is not intended to criticize Farah's Guide; but rather, I intend to explore how actual values vary from the prices listed in the guide. All of the old editions of Farah's Guide that list prices (the earliest editions did not have prices in them) are useful as they let collectors know which books are worth more than others.

The problem is that many people take the prices in the guide as the literal truth. As a result, they price some of their books too high, while others are priced too low. What Farah's Guide actually does is show which books are worth more than others, not the actual values of those books.

The most valuable Nancy Drew books are the true first printings of #1-7 with intact dust jackets, and the values in Farah's Guide are fairly accurate for the early dust jackets. The first printing books tend to sell for less than the quoted values. The dust jacket for the first printing of volume 1 is assigned a value of $10,000, and this value holds true as one example sold for $11,700. The first printing book for volume 1 is assigned a value of $1,000, and it rarely achieves that level. I recall seeing it happen at least once in the past, but generally, the first printing of volume 1 without a dust jacket sells for no more than $500 to $600.

The first printing dust jackets of volumes 2 through 5 and volume 7 almost always attain the values listed in Farah's Guide, which are in the low thousands of dollars. The dust jacket for volume 6 is valued at only $800, because the first five printings have the identical dust jacket, which makes it the easiest early first printing jacket to find. The bare first printing books of the same volumes seldom reach the values listed, which range from $250 up to $1,500.

This is particularly true for the first printing book of volume 7, which is assigned a value of $1,500 in Farah's Guide. I have seen countless sellers try to obtain $1,000 or more for this book without a dust jacket—and fail. The first printing book for volume 7, while very scarce, tends to sell for no more than $500 to $600 without a dust jacket.

For books from the 1930s that are not first printings and have dust jackets, the actual prices paid range from well below Farah's Guide to well above Farah's Guide. It seems that people have greatly varying perceptions of the values of the books from the 1930s, whereas the prices used to be consistently high.

The bare books from 1932 through 1939 are valued at $20 to $60 each, and the dust jackets are valued at around $120 to $400 each. The bare books tend to sell within the quoted range, although they sometimes sell for less. The dust jackets sometimes sell for more than the Farah's Guide value, but I have seen many of the 1930s jackets sell for far less than Farah's values and for less than the modern Applewood books with jackets, which is kind of bizarre. This is especially ironic considering that the Applewood editions were supposed to be cheap alternatives to the 1930s editions; instead, the Applewood editions are pricier than many of the old books.

This same trend is true for most books with jackets from the 1940s and 1950s, especially for the tweed books with jackets. The tweed books from the 1950s with dust jackets are valued at around $30 to $50 each. The prices have collapsed to where it is very difficult to sell a tweed book with a dust jacket for more than $10 to $15.

I find it easier to get $5 to $8 for a tweed book without dust jacket than to get $10 to $15 for a tweed book with dust jacket. It hardly makes sense, but it is true. For some inexplicable reason, I find that the dust jacket no longer adds that much value to a tweed book in the current buying market. In fact, the buyers seem to value the picture cover editions far more than the editions with dust jackets and are often willing to pay steep prices for the picture cover editions.

This is a disturbing trend for those of us who have been collecting for a while, since we had to pay steep prices for the dust-jacketed editions that now command such low prices. It is downright depressing to have extra books to sell that now have little perceived value.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #38

37 Vintage Nancy Drew Book Set

Here is the seller's picture:

Question: Do the books have tweed or blue and orange hardcovers under the white spine dust jackets?

Answer: They are a blue "tweed" look.

This was an unnecessary question. Notice in the photo that the tops of the books can be seen. The ink on the top edge is dark blue. The books with orange silhouette endpapers have red ink on the top edge of the book.

I should mention that there is an extremely slight chance that a book with dark blue ink on the top page edges could have orange silhouette endpapers. A few such books are beginning to come to light, and I need to change my format page to mention that a few variations may exist.

...............................................

ASSORTED NANCY DREW HC BOOKS YELLOW MATTE LOT OF 62

This listing was for a lot of 62 Nancy Drew picture cover books.

Question: What year (years) are these Nancy Drew books?

Answer: All but approx 6 are 1959 to 1974. The other six have all capital letters in the title on the spine that I've read indicates that they were revised in the 70's. These books have copyright dates in the 1970's.

Yay! The information is getting out.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #37

A Collection of 30 Nancy Drew Mystery Books

Question: how many of the 30 books have a blue cover with an orange picture on the cover? also of the the above books that are this way do any have a blank page on the inside of the cover, and if so what books?

Answer: The Sign of the Twisted Candles - inside covers are white with orange pics inside The Quest of the Missing Map - white w?orange complete and unabridged The Mystery of the Tolling Bell w?o The Message in the Hollow Oak w/o The Secret at Shadow Ranch w/o Thw Whispering Statue - w/o complete and unabridged Nancy's Mysterious Letter w/o The Hidden Staircase w/o The Mystery at the Moss Covered Mansion w/o writing in front cover The Mystery of the Brass Bound Trunk w/o writing in the front cover The Secret in The Old Attic w/o The Clue in The Diary w/o writing in the front cover The Clue in The Jewel Box w/o The Secret of Red Gate Farm w/o The Haunted Bridge w/o The Password to Larkspur Lane w/o The Clue of the Tapping Heels w/o The Mystery of the Ivory Charm w/o Complete and unabridged The Clue in the Crumbling Wall w/o 11 white with blue in cover *Complete and unabridged = This Book, while produced under wartime conditions, in full compliance with goverment regulations for the conservation of paper and other essential materials, is Complete and Unabridged these are only ones marked this way

It sounded like the prospective buyer wanted to know how many of the books had the orange silhouette on the cover, and of those books, whether any of them had blank endpapers. It is not possible for a book with an orange silhouette on the cover to have blank endpapers.

It is worth revisiting Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #7. In that post, I stated, "All books with the orange silhouette in the center of the front cover have the orange silhouette endpapers. There are no exceptions whatsoever! Notice that the center of the front cover has an orange silhouette. Likewise, the endpapers have the orange silhouette."

I then pictured a blank endpapers book, which has no silhouette on the front cover. I stated, "Notice that there is no image of Nancy Drew on the front cover. Likewise, the endpapers are blank; there is nothing printed on them."

Going back to the above question and answer, I have to admit that the seller's response was a bit confusing. Trying to understand it all just about gives me a headache. The seller stated that a book had the orange silhouette endpapers, but for most of the books, the seller only made the comment "w/o." It rather made it sound like all of those books had blank endpapers, but the books had to have had some other type of printed endpapers like blue silhouette.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #36

This time the question was for me. A prospective buyer asked, "I'm concerned about the disparity between this cover and the multipic endpapers, this looks like a very old dj (which is great) w/ a newer edition, especially w/ the listing to The Golden Pavilion which was, I think, after the sixties rewrites. Can you help me out on this one?"

This is the listing:

Nancy Drew #12 Message in Hollow Oak Carolyn Keene HCDJ

It bothers me to get comments like this. I am not sure whether they just need an explanation or whether they think I have misrepresented the book.

First, Golden Pavilion was published in 1959, which is not after the 1960s. My copy of Hollow Oak has a jacket that lists to Golden Pavilion, which means that it was printed in 1959. According to Farah's 12th edition, the book and jacket match the points for the 1959B-52 printing. This is not a mismatch, and there is no disparity.

The blue tweed books went out of print in 1962, so a blue tweed book cannot be from years later, if that is what the buyer thought. The blue multi endpapers were used on all original text books until they were revised, with the exception of #35-38 which had blue multi endpapers but were never revised. Additionally, the older picture covers for the revised books, #1-4 and #6, did have the blue multi endpapers. The blue multi endpapers were used on at least some books until when they were revised or went through a cover art change in the 1970s.

Aside from #1-4 and #6, all blue multi endpaper books have the original text (#35-38 do have the original 20 chapter text). This might be the first time that I have found someone who thought that the blue multi endpapers likely indicate a revised text book. The presence of blue multi endpapers is more likely to indicate that a book has the original text rather than indicate that it does not have the original text.

Hollow Oak was not revised until 1972, so all printings of Hollow Oak from 1935 through early 1972 have the original text.

All blue tweed books have the original text except for just a few printings of #1-4 and 6. Those are the only blue tweed books in which a buyer needs to worry about which text the book has. Even in those cases, the vast majority of tweed books that surface will have the original text. It is actually quite difficult to find #4 and #6 in blue tweed books with the revised text.

This is a battle that will never be won. We have quite a few people who are confused about formats and must not be visiting the several websites out there that explain formats. Just do a Google search for "Nancy Drew formats," and you will find the information you need.

I remain convinced that the popularity of the Nancy Drew Applewood facsimile editions is largely due to people who cannot figure out which of the older books have the original text, so they pay high prices for the Applewoods so they can be guaranteed to receive a book with the original text. For those who disagree, remember that someone once commented in this blog that it was too confusing to figure out which old books have the original text, so she found it easier to buy the Applewoods.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #35

Nancy Drew Mystery Stories- Lot of 2 Books Item #110441656908

This auction was for two Nancy Drew books with dust jackets. The seller stated that the books have the wartime conditions notice, which dates the books to World War II. The seller stated that one book lists to Missing Map and the other one to Moss-Covered Mansion. The seller also stated that the books were printed around 1942-1943.

Question: Please send pictures of the book without the dust jacket. Are they blue cloth or tweed? Orange on blue or blue on blue? Are the inside end papers orange?

Answer: Yes books are orange lettering on blue. and inside Orange figures/pictures

The buyer's questions were all unnecessary. While the seller did not state the requested information in the original description, the books were printed during the early 1940s (for multiple reasons given by the seller and mentioned above). All Nancy Drew books from the early 1940s have orange print on the cover and orange silhouette endpapers. The prospective buyer asked whether the books are tweed. The tweed books did not come along until the 1950s, so the books cannot be tweed. Please see my Nancy Drew formats page for this information.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #34

1933 NANCY DREW THE PASSWORD TO LARKSPUR LANE Item #220488653044

Question: Is there printing on the reverse side of the dust jacket or is it blank? Thank you.

Answer: THERE IS PRINTING ON THE REVERSE SIDE OF THE DUST JACKET.

The prospective buyer was asking the question in order to determine whether the dust jacket is the first/second printing dust jacket, which are identical. Only the first/second printing dust jacket has the print on the reverse side.

While the seller did not show the reverse side of the dust jacket, one of the photos contained the information that the buyer was seeking. It is something that I always watch for when a seller shows a photo of either flap of an early dust jacket. Here is the important photo:


Notice along the extreme right edge of the back flap that something is printed in red ink. The only Nancy Drew dust jackets that have that message on them in red ink are the ones that have lists of books printed on the reverse side of the dust jacket. Therefore, this dust jacket is one of the very early dust jackets with the ads on the reverse side.

Both the front and back flaps have a message along the edge in red ink. On the front flap, the message reads, "LOOK ON THE REVERSE SIDE OF THIS JACKET." On the back flap, the message reads, "PRESERVE THIS WRAPPER FOR FUTURE REFERENCE." Anytime you see a photo of one of the jacket flaps and see a message at the edge in red ink, it is a very early dust jacket from the early 1930s that has the lists on the reverse side.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #33

SIGN OF THE TWISTED CANDLES - KEENE NANCY DREW MYSTERY Item #380162102798

This is the seller's picture:

Question: Hi there! I'm interested in purchasing this book. I was wondering if you could describe for me the endpapers inside the front cover - what the design looks like and what color it's printed in.

Answer: The endpapers are orange silhouettes on white. ONe side shows three girls and the other side shows Nancy with a magnifying glass following a trail with a house in the background. Thanks for your interest. Good luck!

This is another example of an unnecessary question. Notice the lower right corner of the book where the dust jacket is turned back. We can see that the dust jacket has the print on the reverse side, which means that the jacket is from the early 1930s. Anyone who has visited my Nancy Drew formats page knows that Twisted Candles was never printed in the blank endpapers format (only volumes 1-7 were). Since the jacket is from the early 1930s, the book must have orange silhouette endpapers. Notice that the book is thick and that a small amount of the orange writing can be seen on the cover. These are other clues.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #32

This is more of a case of seller confusion, but it is worth mentioning.

1931 NANCY DREW THE SECRET AT SHADOW RANCH Item #180405212444

In the description, the seller stated, "I BELIEVE THIS TO BE THE FIRST PRINTING SINCE THERE IS ONLY ONE DATE IN THE BOOK."

The seller is someone who, like many, believes that a single date proves that the book is the first printing. While this is true for many publishers, it is not true for Grosset and Dunlap. People do not realize that Grosset and Dunlap saved money by seldom changing the plates. Nearly all printings of all Nancy Drew books printed before 1985 only have one date on the copyright page. Just about every single book looks like a first printing to someone who thinks that a single date proves that a book is the first printing.
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In this case, a prospective buyer who is fully informed and owns a Farah's Guide wished to identify whether the book is the first printing in a more difficult method than was necessary.

VINTAGE NANCY DREW 1937 WHISPERING STATUE #14 First Ed. Item #120469851150

The listing included these photos in addition to many others.


The flaps of the jacket match the points for both the first and second printing dust jackets, which are identical. The book's points are needed to determine whether the book is the first or second printing, thus determining whether the book and jacket meet the points for the first or second printing.

Question: Your heading advertises this as a first ed first printing but your description says you aren't sure so this is a bit misleading to bidders. The only way to determine the difference between a first and second printing of this title is to show a pic of the actual book without the jacket. Thanks!

Answer: My own research indicates that this (and the other ND I currently have up) is a 1st edition. But I'm not a professional book seller, and want to make clear to prospective bidders that they should double check with reputable guide books. I'm not sure how showing the book without the DJ reveals anything more than all the many shots I've provided of the DJ (which contain the lists of books in both the NDrew series and other series and are used as indicators by Farah's and others), but will try to get a shot of the book without its DJ uploaded soon. Many thanks for your input.

First of all, I have a big pet peeve about the whole formats thing in Farah's Guide, and I absolutely cannot stand scrutinizing the boards of a Nancy Drew book and trying to figure out whether I am looking at a bunch of plus signs, wavy lines, slightly raised lines, slightly depressed lines, and all that rot. Sorry. I know why he mentions all that stuff, but I avoid it whenever I can determine a printing by some other, any other, means. Why would anyone go through that on purpose?

So... This is why it was unnecessary. The first printing book has the following post-text ads: ND#1-13, ML #1-6, and JB #1-9. The second printing book has the following post-text ads: ND #1-13, HBG (6), and ML #1-6. All that needed to be asked was whether the very last post-text ad page listed nine Judy Bolton titles ending in Mysterious Half Cat. Only the first printing book has that page as the last ad. That seems easier to me than trying to look at the boards from an eBay photo that has a reduced resolution.

Here is the picture of the book that the seller added in response to that question:


As much as I hate it, I will mention the format information for the boards of the book for the first and second printings. Farah states that the first printing book is Format 3 which has the cover stock texture of "moderately raised horizontal and vertical lines arranged in a weaving pattern." The second printing book is Format 4 which has the cover stock texture of "slightly raised rows of horizontally connected plus signs."

Um, okay. I hate this. It is really hard to tell from the photo, but I think I am seeing the Format 3 pattern. I had to get my first printing book off of the shelf to compare it to this one to make certain. Yes, this book has the Format 3 pattern, so it is the first printing. Wouldn't it have been easier to just look at the post-text ads?

Note: Since the questioner may be a reader of this blog, please try not to be offended as I seem to be offending quite a few people lately. This blog contains my opinions, and I abhor looking at the texture of the boards of Nancy Drew books. It raises the hackles, if you know what I mean. I realize that for reasons unknown to me, others might prefer to look at the boards when it makes me want to scream.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #31

Vintage Lot of 19 Nancy Drew & Hardy Boys HC Books Item #270447639838

This is the seller's picture:


The auction contained this information in the description:

1. The Scarlet Slipper Mystery 1954
2. The Mystery of The Ivory Charm 1936
3. The Clue of the Velvet Mask1953
4. The Clue in the Old Stagecoach 1960
5. The Mystery At The Moss-Covered Mansion 1941
6. The Haunted Showboat 1957
7. The Mystery of the Brass Bound Trunk 1940
8. The Clue of the Black Keys 1951
9. The Haunted Bridge 1937
10. The Password to Larkspur Lane 1933
11. The Secret At Shadow Ranch 1931
12. The Ringmaster's Secret 1953
13. The Clue of the Leaning Chimney 1949
14. The Secret of the Old Clock 1930 (missing binder)
15. The Whispering Statue 1937 (has water damage on front, back, & binder)
16. The Secret of the Golden Pavilion 1959
17. The Hidden Window Mystery 1956
18. The Clue in the Diary 1932

Question: Do these all have 25 chapters (in particular, The Hidden Window)? Thanks.

Answer: All but 3 have 25 chapters including The Hidden Window has 25. The 3 that have only 20 chapters are The Clue in the Old Stagecoach, The Haunted Showboat, and The Secret of the Golden Pavilion.

As I have stated in the past, this type of question is often unnecessary. In this particular case, it was completely unnecessary. The seller provided a photo of the books and even gave the copyright dates. With the inclusion of the copyright dates, there is no doubt which books contained the original text.

All Nancy Drew books with a copyright date of 1956 or before must contain 25 chapters. All blue tweed Nancy Drew books must contain the original text with the exceptions of #1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. It is only necessary to ask about #1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 if the copyright date is not given. If the copyright date is given and is before 1956 (it will be 1930 or 1931), then those books must contain the original text. Of those books, this lot only contained #1, and the copyright date given was 1930, proving that the book has the original text.

The blue tweed books for #35 through 38 have copyrights after 1956 and contain just 20 chapters. However, those four books never had 25 chapters in the first place, so they contain the original text.

Of particular concern to the prospective buyer was whether Hidden Window contained the original text. Hidden Window was not revised until the 1970s when it was in the matte picture cover format. It is not possible for a tweed copy of Hidden Window to have anything other than the original text. The copyright date for the original text is 1956, so this is further proof that the book has the original text.

If prospective buyers have a handy list of the original copyright dates of Nancy Drew books, then it is always easy to determine whether the book has the original 25 chapter text. The book just has to have a copyright date of 1956 or before.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #30

Here we go again:

Nancy Drew: The Haunted Bridge (1937) 1st Edition? Item #220459821578

Here are the seller's pictures:

Question: Hello, Can you tell me if the book has orange title on the front cover, orange top of pages, & orange pics inside? Is copyright on the title page? Thanks.

Answer: Hi! The title on the front cover is black. The tops of the pages are blue. The pictures are black and white. The copyright is on the back of the title page. Sorry to have taken so long to answer, but I was called out of town.

First of all, the copyright date is never on the title page of a Nancy Drew book, except maybe in some oddball case that I can't quite remember. The buyer must know that, for many publishers, a way to determine a first printing is when the copyright date appears on the title page and is the same as the copyright printed on the copyright page. This is not true for Grosset and Dunlap. It would have required effort on G&D's part to print the date on the copyright page and to change it accordingly for later printings. G&D was low budget and low effort.

Next, the first picture tells me that the book is not thick and must be a tweed book from the 1950s. The reason I know is because the white spine wraps onto the left edge of the front panel, which indicates that the spine design of the dust jacket is too wide for the book. Most white spine dust jackets that were printed for tweed books wrap onto the left edge of the front panel. When the white spines were originally designed, they were sized to fit the thick books. As the books became less thick, the spines overlapped onto the front panel.

The second picture proves that the book is a tweed book. The list of Dana Girls titles ends with Black Flower, which was published in 1956. Therefore, this book was mostly likely printed in 1956 and must be a tweed book. Tweed books do not have orange endpapers, orange on the front cover, or orange on the top page edges.

As I have stated in the past, buyers need to educate themselves about the books before jumping into trying to buy a bunch of old books. Multiple websites exist that detail how to tell how old a Nancy Drew book is. Just a search for "Nancy Drew old books" will bring up some of the important pages. "Nancy Drew formats" works even better. A search for "Nancy Drew orange silhouette" brings up some good results. It is not hard to find the information, and having the information saves so much time. I would hate to have to ask every single seller whether a book has orange endpapers. It would waste so much time.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #29

Here is my 29th example of buyer confusion on Nancy Drew:

Nancy Drew THE CLUE IN THE CRUMBLING WALL Item #250480505779

Here is the seller's main picture:


The Clue in the Crumbling Wall had just one dust jacket design in all of the years that it was in print. Apparently many people do not know this fact.

Question: does dustjacket have a white spine ?

Answer: Yes, the dustjacket is white. It has a slight tear at the top. Nixie

A visit to one of several online resources would have answered that question for the buyer.

Nancy Drew Dust Jacket Gallery

Note that only one version of #22 is pictured in the above gallery, and it has a white spine. The buyer probably didn't realize that #22 only had one dust jacket version. The buyer may also thought that some jackets had both the white spine and the wrap spine but kept the same cover art. This is not true. When the jackets were changed to the wrap version, the cover art changed as well. The entire jacket was redone. Of course, #22 was never issued with a wrap dust jacket, so the white spine version is the only version.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #28

Sometimes I grow weary of seeing the same types of questions over and over in the eBay listings. By continuing this series of posts, maybe a few new people will learn more about collecting.

Set of NANCY DREW MYSTERY STORIES - 1-50 - Vintage! Item #260441758400

The seller states, "I personally collected these books since the 1960s." Just this simple statement gives some important information. While it is possible that older books could have been purchased, most people probably purchased new books as children. It is reasonable to conclude that the offered books were likely printed during the 1960s.

The seller gives the copyright dates of all of the books, so it is possible to figure out which text the book has. Remember that any Nancy Drew book with a copyright date of 1956 or before must contain the original 25 chapter text. Also remember that volumes 35 and up never had 25 chapter texts in the first place.

Question: me again, you placed 1934 as the publication of the broken locket. is that when the book that you're selling is published? or did you just write publishing date of the original edition? when are the majority of these books really published?

Answer: Hi, I will check shipping to the Philippines and get back to you. The publication year for each and every book I have listed is cited inside the book. I have not made up any dates. Some of the books printed in the late 1950s and 60s were edited by Grosset & Dunlap with updated text. Many of the books were published before the 1960s when I started collecting them. It may be helpful for you to note which of the books carry the blue end pages, as these preceded the later white ones. Sincerely, Amanda

I believe the buyer is using "published" in place of "printed." The seller stated that the books were purchased beginning from the 1960s, and I can tell from the photos that most of the books are from the 1960s.

I would say that nearly all of volumes 1 through 40 in the above picture were printed during the 1960s. I am not certain about Lilac Inn since it looks like it could be from the 1970s. The books for volume 41 and up look more like the 1970s, although one or two books from the 1960s may be in that group.

I know this because Nancy Drew picture covers from the 1960s tend to have spines in varying shades of yellow. The spines are prone to fading. The lettering on the spines of Nancy Drew books from the 1960s is larger than in the 1970s and is of mixed case rather than all upper case. There are exceptions as I have stated in previous posts, but these characteristics hold true for the vast majority of the books, which makes for an easy way to narrow down the age of a picture cover edition.

Also notice how thick some of the books are, such as Broken Locket. A couple of printings of the early picture cover editions from 1962 and 1963 are quite thick, so those books definitely date from 1962 or 1963.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #27

I have decided that in some cases in which the seller is a knowledgeable, regular seller of series books that I am neither going to identify the seller nor link to the auction.

Nancy Drew RARE COMPLETE SET Vintage PC Books 1-38

The auction has the subtitle: ALL BLUE & WHITE ENDPAPERS Original Text & Cover Art

The subtitle appears to state that all of the books have the original text, which is not true for #1-4 and #6 in the picture cover format. Those titles were never printed with the original text in the picture cover format.

I do not believe that the seller intended to mislead buyers, since the seller would be risk a negative from the buyer. I am sure that the seller meant that all of the books that could possibly have the original text in the picture cover format have the original text in this auction.

Question: Hi, How many chapters are in volumes 1-34, twenty five or twenty?

Answer: Per the series-books.com webpage: "[extremely long quote saying that #1-4 and #6 with 25 chapters were never issued in PC format, etc., removed to keep this brief]" Any of the books in this set that were ever offered with 25 chapters/revised text are included, including the extremely rare #7. Those that were never printed in picture cover form with original text are early editions with blue endpapers. Hope this helps!

The seller did a great job of clarifying the situation by quoting my site. It is my opinion that that information should have been stated in the original description. The seller did improve the situation slightly upon relisting the auction by providing the above question and answer in the item description. Unfortunately, it did not help, possibly because the quote from my site was way too long and wordy.

Question: Hello, Can you please tell me if these books are the originals and not the revised editions? They would have 25 chapters, not 20. Thanks,

Answer: Please read the answer to the question at the bottom of the page. Some pcs were never available with original text. Ones that were are included in this set. Thank you!

The statement "Some pcs were never available with original text. Ones that were are included in this set" should have been placed at the beginning of the item description in the first place when the first auction was created. Not only that, but had the seller stated that #1-4, 6, and #35-38 have 20 chapters while #7 and #8-34 have 25 chapters at the beginning of the description, the questions never would have been asked.

I have strongly advocated that buyers need to educate themselves in order to avoid having to ask unnecessary questions. I also strongly believe that sellers need to clearly and concisely state the pertinent information at the very beginning of the item description so that they will not have to answer unnecessary questions. It saves everyone time.

A number of buyers are confused because of inadequate or unintentionally misleading information in descriptions. A big part of the problem is that many knowledgeable sellers, including me, tend to leave out important information. I learned my mistake when I began to get certain types of questions.

When I listed books, I assumed that my buyers realized that #1-4 and #6 never existed in the picture cover format with the original text. I also incorrectly assumed that buyers realized that #35 and up never had 25 chapters.

It is very important that all knowledgeable sellers help to educate buyers of Nancy Drew books. I cannot do this alone. The confused newbie buyers are not reading this blog.

I wrote a number of guides for series books that are posted on eBay through my account. These guides explain the important points to collecting series books. Until the new search, the guides displayed in the left sidebar of the search results pages, at least most of the time. Those links helped people learn about the books. I periodically received emails from people thanking me for the information or asking me for more information.

Since eBay has "improved" the search by removing the links to those guides, the buyers will no longer be reading them. The guides are still there, but eBay has the reviews and guides section hidden quite well. The easiest way to find them is through a Google search, so buyers will never see them again. I can get to them through my user ID, but otherwise, it is hard to find a way.

So again, help me out here. If you sell series books, clarify what you are selling. Tell your buyers what you mean when you state that the picture covers all contain the original text. Tell them that certain ones never had the original text. Do not assume that they know. I can assure you that many of the buyers are buying blindly and have never visited my website nor any other helpful website.

Something else to keep in mind is that buyers need to see in print on the screen that the books have 25 chapters. Telling the buyers that the books contain the original text is not enough. The buyers cannot be certain that a seller is knowledgeable. When a seller states that the books have the original 25 chapter texts, the buyer can be reassured that the books are indeed what they want, and the seller may get a higher price for the lot.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #26

29 Titles Vintage Nancy Drew Mysteries--Carolyn Keen Item #220400517158

Here is the seller's picture:

Question: HI. Are these books from the earlier printing dates (50s - 70s ) versus the newer printing dates (80s -2004)? Thanks so much!

Answer: Hi, The books are some from the earlier dates and some from the newer priting dates, Thanks

It sounds like the prospective buyer wanted to make certain that the lot did not contain the flashlight editions, which should be obvious just from looking at the picture. The buyer might also have wanted to make certain that the lot did not contain any of the early 1980s books with the double oval endpapers. It is obvious from the picture that the lot did contain some of those books. The upper edge of the text block is unstained for 13 of the pictured books. Those books are from the early 1980s, so they contain the double oval endpapers.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #25

It appears that quite a few people are not informed about what the Applewood editions look like, thinking they are vintage books. Or, it may be that they simply do not read auction descriptions carefully.

NANCY DREW THE CLUE OF THE BROKEN LOCKET, NEW WITH DJ Item #170332476189

This is the seller's picture:

Question #1: Hi - Is this an Applewood reprint of the original? Thanks.

Answer #1: Yes it is....thanks for asking.

Question #2: What do endpapers look like- orange with 4 girls? Are there pictures inside - glossy or plain? What titles are listed on dust jacket flaps? Thanks!!

Answer #2: This book is a Apple reprint of the original.

Question #3: Several questions. Are there any glossy illustrations in the book - if so, frontispiece only or total four (3 internals and frontispiece)? What is the last book listed internally and on the dust jacket? Other series listed on back dust jacket - if so, last title listed? What format/color are the endpapers (orange, blue, nancy magnifying glass etc?) Can't see the spine symbol either. Finally are the interior text pages white, off-white, tanned etc? Sorry for so many questions but it's all very important to a Nancy collector. Thanks.

Answer #3: This book is a Apple reprint of the original. Not a vintage book,thanks for asking.

It is very clear from the picture that this book is an Applewood edition. Notice the gold border along the top and bottom of the front panel. The vintage dust jackets do not have a gold border, only the Applewood editions have it. Look at the spine. I can see the edge of the gold seal on the spine, which is another feature of the Applewood editions. Finally, the seller's title stated "NEW" and the items specifics stated that the condition was "Brand New." Vintage books are not normally described as "brand new" unless the seller is lying.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #24

This is another example of a buyer not knowing that certain books must contain the original text.

Lot 7 VINTAGE Nancy Drew books most w/ dust jackets Item #230347387714

Here is the seller's picture:

Question: can you give copyright years and number of chapters of each with additional pics?

Answer: The Bungalow Mystery-c 1930, 25 chapters The Secret at Shadow Ranch- c 1931, 25 chapters The Secret of Red Gate Farm- c1931, 25 chapters The Clue of the Leaning Chimney- c 1949, 25 chapters The Mystery at the Ski Jump- c 1952, 25 chapters The Clue of the Velvet Mask- c 1953, 25 chapters The Haunted Showboat- c1957, 20 chapters

From the picture, I can tell that Bungalow Mystery is a solid blue book, and all solid blue books have the original text. The remaining books are tweed. Shadow Ranch, Leaning Chimney, Ski Jump, and Velvet Mask were never revised in the tweed format. Those books must have the original text. Haunted Showboat has only 20 chapters, but it never had 25 chapters in the first place, so it is the original text.

The only book that the buyer needed to ask about was Red Gate Farm. Most people who have not seen many Nancy Drew books would not be able to tell that it must also have the original text. The reason I know that the book must have the original text is because the revised text tweed books, #1, 2, 3, 4, and 6, tend to be less thick than the earlier tweed books and are not a bright shade of blue like the book pictured in the auction.

Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew #23

I have not done one of these posts since December. I have some closed auctions in my watched items list on eBay, and I will cover some of those in the coming days.

These posts are inspired by prospective buyers' questions that I see in various Nancy Drew auctions on eBay. I use the title "Buyer Confusion on Nancy Drew," but it is more a lack of buyer research than anything else.

Whenever I decide to collect another series, my first task is to research the series as best I can. I obtain a list of titles, and I research the publisher and the author and try to figure out which formats are available. Since I am now collecting very obscure series such as Grace Harlowe and Marjorie Dean, I am going on very limited information, but I have armed myself with as much information as I can find. Additionally, what I already know about other series applies to the obscure ones, so I have a good idea how to proceed.

What amazes me is how many people decide to collect Nancy Drew books and try to buy on eBay having completed very little research. They clearly have done some research, since they know that they want the original 25 chapter texts. Their questions indicate that while they have some basic information, they have not viewed this series of posts nor have they viewed my formats page nor my page about the original texts. It continues to frustrate me how much time these people waste asking unnecessary questions when the research is so easy. Nancy Drew is not an obscure series like Grace Harlowe or Marjorie Dean. It is very easy to find substantial useful information about collecting Nancy Drew books and how to tell by sight whether a book contains the original text.

Here is a good example:

Nice Lot (5) Vintage Blue Cover Nancy Drew Books -Keene Item #160340606402

This is the seller's picture:


It contains all of the information we need to know in order to tell whether the books contain the original text.

Question: can you show more pics re: all books and how many chapters do each have? are the listed copyright dates the original for these listed books?

Answer: Thanks for your interest. The listed copyright dates are the only dates listed in the books and judging from the years I would say they were the originals. Chapters and total pages are: Missing Map, 25 Chapters-213 Pgs; Velvet Mask, 25 Chapters and 211 pgs; Tolling Bell, 25 Chapters and 213 pgs; Wooden Lady, 213 pgs; Old Album, 25 Chapters, 218 pgs. Please send me your e-mail address and I can send more pictures. Good Luck & Happy Bidding!!

First, the books from this auction are all either blue or tweed books. All blue books contain the original 25 chapter texts—no exceptions. For the tweed books, the only books that were ever revised were #1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. The auction did not contain any of those titles. Therefore, I know from the above photo that all five books must contain the original 25 chapter text. It is not necessary to ask. I have this information on the page about the original texts which I mention further up in this post.

The buyer asked the seller whether the copyright dates were the original ones, and the seller did not know. Please refer to this page to see a list of the original copyright dates. For the 34 titles listed in the first section of that page, if the books have those copyright dates, they must contain the original 25 chapter text. The seller did list the copyright dates in the description, so even without the photo, there was no doubt that the books contain the original text.

I now fully understand why the Applewood editions have become so valuable. It is not so much that the books are nice but that uninformed buyers know that the Applewood books contain the original text. People who have done no research can be certain that they are buying books with the original text when they buy the Applewood editions. That is the reason.