This post contains lists of Whitman books that are fine to discuss in the Collecting Vintage Children's Series Books group. Even though we now have a guideline to use when approving posts, Whitman books will continue to be a problem. Whitman books have a certain appearance, which makes them all appear to go together. I believe that most people view the Whitman books as a publisher's set of general children's books. I sort of view them that way.
When we approve Whitman books that are from actual series, members who see all Whitman books as a publisher's set will unfortunately have their mistaken belief reinforced that all Whitman books are okay. My hope is that we have to spend much less time discussing Whitman books in our moderator chat. We're still going to have members submit Whitman books rather often that are inappropriate, but hopefully we can reject those books without having to go through lengthy discussions about what to do.
Whitman published many series books, probably far more than you realize. All of these series are fine for the group. I did not go to the trouble of listing the titles of the books. I have only given the name of each series.
Whitman Series Books
Andy Lane
Bert Wilson
Blythe Girls
Bobby Blake
Bobbsey Twins
Brains Benton
Donna Parker
Fighters for Freedom Series
Five Little Peppers
Ginny Gordon
Hal Keen
Joy and Pam
Judy Jordan
Kim Aldrich
Mary Lee
Meg Duncan
Nurses Three
Outdoor Girls
Pee-wee Harris
Polly Brewster
Polly French
Power Boys
Rex Cole
Rip Foster
Robin Kane
Rover Boys
Rushton Boys
Great Marvel Series (Roy Rockwood)
Tarzan
Timber Trail Riders
Tom Slade
Tom Stetson
Tom Swift
Trixie Belden
Troy Nesbit
Trudy Phillips
The Tuckers
Walton Boys
To clarify, Fighters for Freedom Series consists of standalone stories grouped together and branded as a series. We will not accept any other standalone books. These books will be accepted because they are grouped together as the Fighters for Freedom series. That name is on each dust jacket.
I feel that accepting the Fighters for Freedom books is highly problematic since a number of standalone Whitman books from the same period could be confused with them. However, we will continue to accept them unless we decide that they are causing too much confusion.
1. Sally Scott of the Waves, Snell
2. Barry Blake of the Flying Fortress, Du Bois
3. Nancy Dale, Army Nurse, Radford
4. Kitty Carter, Canteen Girl, Radford
5. Dick Donnelly of the Paratroops, Duncan
6. Norma Kent of the WACS, Snell
7. March Anson and Scott Bailey of the U.S. Navy, Duncan
8. Sparky Ames and Mary Mason of the Ferry Command, Snell
9. Punch Davis of the U.S. Aircraft Carrier, Snell
The rest of the books listed in this post are from series based on a real person set in a fictional story or based on the likeness of a real person set in a fictional story. They are okay for the group and will remain okay until or unless we find that any of them are causing confusion. I am uneasy about continuing to accept these books due how they will be confused with the authorized editions. However, they are actual series, so we will continue to accept them.
Annette
Sierra Summer
The Desert Inn Mystery
The Mystery at Moonstone Bay
The Mystery at Smugglers' Cove
Mystery at Medicine Wheel
Gene Autry
Gene Autry and the Thief River Outlaws
Gene Autry and the Redwood Pirates
Gene Autry and the Golden Ladder Gang
Gene Autry and the Badmen of Broken Bow
Gene Autry and the Big Valley Grab
Gene Autry and the Golden Stallion
Gene Autry and the Ghost Riders
Gene Autry and the Arapaho War Drums
Janet Lennon/Lennon Sisters
Janet Lennon: Adventure at Two Rivers
Janet Lennon and the Angels
Janet Lennon at Camp Calamity
Lennon Sisters: The Secret of Holiday Island
Roy Rogers
The Gopher Creek Gunman
The Raiders of Sawtooth Ridge
The Ghost of Mystery Rancho
The Outlaws of Sundown Valley
The Rimrod Renegades
Tuesday, August 9, 2022
The Whitman Book Dilemma Part 4
Monday, August 8, 2022
The Whitman Book Dilemma Part 3
I want to give an idea of the lengthy, involved discussions that the moderators have had about various Whitman books over the years. I went through our moderator chat and found where we have mentioned the Whitman books. Below, you will find comments that I have made about the Whitman books. You're only getting my part of the conversation, but you should pick up on how difficult this has been for us. We have needed a specific guideline that we can follow so that we do not contradict ourselves.
October 15, 2017
What about Whitman books? Quite often we have had new members post Whitman books that I do not consider series books.
May 12, 2019
Yesterday I closed comments on [redacted]'s post that was almost all general Whitman books and a G.I. Joe thermos. [redacted] contacted me since she was upset at my action. I explained further and she deleted her post. Her feelings were quite hurt. She never did repost her books in the other group like I suggested. People just want the Collecting group to be everything.
June 2, 2019
Regarding Patty O'Neal, it probably isn't a series. However, since that kind of Whitman book tends to appeal to members, I'm inclined not to worry about it.
June 2, 2019
I view the Whitman books of the 1940s as like a publisher set or series, so I'm okay with those showing up sometimes.
Sept. 5, 2021
Peggy Parker, Girl Inventor is part of a publisher set/series which features the Bonita Granville book among others. The other books in the set are similar to our books (although most tend to be boring or weird). I feel like it would be okay since the other books are okay. Do you agree or disagree?
Sept. 13, 2021
I agree, and it is happening because of [redacted]'s Whitman post and is not unexpected. Whitman books (aside from Trixie and other obvious series) always cause problems.
I should not have approved the post with Lassie in it. I did because the other books were generally okay, but Lassie shouldn't have been the first book pictured. These people don't understand group optics at all.
November 23, 2021
I declined the attached post with this reason: "We find that the Whitman TV books cause the group to go off topic. If you can resubmit the post without the Rin Tin Tin book, we can approve it. Thanks!"
I just realized that Rin Tin Tin is probably one of the books in the 1958 Whitman DJ set that includes one Trixie Belden book... Like always, some posts are in the gray area making it tough to make the best decision.
January 26, 2022
I saw the post before reading this chat, and I just declined the post. So I agree. No Whitman television books, period. We're done with allowing those. They aren't our kind of series, so they don't belong. I suggested the other group, as I always do. People wanted the other group to exist, but they won't use it.
March 7, 2022
The Whitman books are problematic since whatever we approve leads to ones that are completely off. See [above]. I am partly inclined to approve it since it fits with some other books that have been mentioned lately. On the other hand, it's an authorized edition of the type we often decline. It should be noted that we generally allow the movie star books of the 1940s. Which way do we go?
March 7, 2022
It would be easier if we just reject all Whitman books outside of the obvious series books. Should we just do that? If we do reject all of them, should we also start rejecting all adaptations based on actual people like Annette and Janet Lennon?
March 8, 2022
I have read all of the female movie star books... and know that they are just like our series books. That is why I've always approved posts about them, although I feel they are problematic due to people then thinking all Whitman books are okay.
The reason why I thought Joyce of the Secret Squadron might be okay is that it takes place during WW2, and we have recently discussed some series books set during the war. I don't feel that those series books set during the war are strongly on topic, but we don't disallow everything that isn't precisely like Nancy Drew.
This is a real dilemma. If we are going to continue to allow the movie star books of the 1940s and also war-themed series books, then this book seems to fit our focus. Looking into it further, it is based on the Captain Midnight franchise, which means that we should reject it like the later Whitman TV books.
So, we could decline it because it is an authorized edition from a filmed franchise.
I don't know if Annette and Janet Lennon read that differently from Meg Duncan and Robin Kane. I don't care to disallow Meg and Robin, but most of our group probably isn't into them.
March 8, 2022
I'm thinking this through as I continue to respond. We need a clear guideline. All Whitman books based on filmed versions should be declined, which means we decline the Joyce/Captain Midnight book. Do we agree with that?
This still leaves us with the movie star books of the 1940s as well as Annette, Janet, etc. They aren't based on filmed media, so they are different. They are exactly like the movie star books of the 1940s. Whatever we do on the movie star books, then we should do the same on Annette, Janet, etc. They are no different.
March 8, 2022
The only ones I'm struggling with are the movie star books, Janet Lennon, and Annette. They are a problem because people then think that the authorized editions are okay.
We can decline the pending post [Joyce of the Secret Squadron]... All books from franchises that originated in filmed media should be declined...
But do we continue to approve the books where real people were used as the characters in completely fictional stories? Maybe we should since they aren't actually an authorized edition from a franchise.
March 8, 2022
[in response to a suggestion to allow movie star and Annette/Janet Lennon]
That sounds fine. I feel that the same decision should apply to the movie star books and Annette/Janet Lennon.
May 22, 2022
I approved a post that includes Peggy Parker, a Whitman book in the gray area. We previously discussed Peggy Parker here, and a post by [redacted] was allowed in the group in September. For that reason, I went ahead and approved the post after I refreshed my memory on the situation.
July 4, 2022
Approve or disapprove? I'm struggling, which often happens with these books. I've searched our conversation here to see what we've said before. Generally, we decline books where the franchise originated in filmed media. I think these would fall under that.
July 4, 2022
That's where my problem is; I thought of the Lone Ranger. I was definitely a "no," but then I started thinking about it. I'll wait for at least one more opinion before I do anything. I can be convinced either way.
July 5, 2022
The problem is that we have accepted Jane Withers and similar before. We have also accepted Annette and the Lennon sisters... We are contradicting ourselves, which is why I don't know what to do. We allow some and then not others. We haven't been consistent.
It would be easier if we quit allowing all books that feature real people's names in the titles. Our inconsistency makes it hard to make a decision.
July 5, 2022
I don't know that we have had complaints about off-topic books. The problem is that we are boxed in somewhat more than we should be. This, of course, was caused by [redacted].
I know that [redacted] feels like we shouldn't be quite so strict. However, I don't know how to ease up. It would very quickly go too far towards general children's books.
Also, we do approve Troy Nesbit books. The Gene Autry books are probably a lot like them even though an actual person's name is on the books.
To me, this is a mess. Whitman has been a big problem all along. I don't know where to draw the line.
I was going to decline the Gene Autry post, but I can't say that we don't allow books with real people in the titles. We do allow some of them. What do we say?
July 5, 2022
I see the Gene Autry books as similar to Lone Ranger and Troy Nesbit. They are all westerns, and they are series.
July 5, 2022
It sounds like we've switched to approving them. I will do so and will also approve the other post about the Walton Boys series. Obviously, we will need to continue to discuss Whitman books in the future as the need arises.
Two weeks ago, I presented to the other moderators what I thought we should do. At first, they agreed with me until I remembered that I had forgotten to mention certain books. That was when we began to disagree. We found it impossible to come to a consensus regarding all of the Whitman books in the 2300 set.
Finally, I suggested that we disallow discussion of the Whitman movie star books from the 1940s. Allowing those books has caused the conflict and inconsistency. If we were to continue to allow those books, then we would need to begin allowing certain other books in order to be consistent. I do not feel that the other books belong in the group, so we must disallow the movie star books.
We will not approve posts with Whitman books that are the movie star books, books based on comic strips, standalone books, reprints of classics, general children's books, or the television tie-in books.
My final post on this subject will contain lists of which Whitman books we will accept in the group.
Sunday, August 7, 2022
The Whitman Book Dilemma Part 2
This post contains the lists that I made of many Whitman books. I grouped these books under a few headings as I worked towards making sense of the types of books published by Whitman. The books listed here are primarily from the 2300 set, but some books are from years later. These are not complete lists. I avoided italics so that the titles are easier to read.
Authorized editions featuring a real person in a fictional story
Annette
Sierra Summer
The Desert Inn Mystery
The Mystery at Moonstone Bay
The Mystery at Smugglers' Cove
Mystery at Medicine Wheel
Ann Rutherford and the Key to Nightmare Hall
Ann Sheridan and the Sign of the Sphinx
Betty Grable and the House of Cobwebs
Betty Grable and the House with the Iron Shutters
Bonita Granville and the Mystery of Star Island
Deanna Durbin and the Adventure of Blue Valley
Deanna Durbin and the Feather of Flame
Dorothy Lamour and the Haunted Lighthouse
Gene Autry
Gene Autry and the Thief River Outlaws
Gene Autry and the Redwood Pirates
Gene Autry and the Golden Ladder Gang
Gene Autry and the Badmen of Broken Bow
Gene Autry and the Big Valley Grab
Gene Autry and the Golden Stallion
Gene Autry and the Ghost Riders
Gene Autry and the Arapaho War Drums
Gene Tierney and the Invisible Wedding Gift
Ginger Rogers and the Riddle of the Scarlet Cloak
Gregory Peck and the Red Box Enigma
Janet Lennon/Lennon Sisters
Janet Lennon: Adventure at Two Rivers
Janet Lennon and the Angels
Janet Lennon at Camp Calamity
Lennon Sisters: The Secret of Holiday Island
Jane Withers and the Hidden Room
Jane Withers and the Phantom Violin
Jane Withers and the Swamp Wizard
John Payne and the Menace of Hawk's Nest
Judy Garland and the Hoodoo Costume
Roy Rogers/Dale Evans
Shirley Temple and the Screaming Specter
Shirley Temple and the Spirit of Dragonwood
Van Johnson: The Luckiest Guy in the World
Also: Polly the Powers Model (features a girl from the John Robert Powers modeling agency)
Authorized editions based on comics
Blondie and Dagwood's Snapshot Clue
Dick Tracy Ace Detective
Red Ryder and the Riddle of Roaring Range
Red Ryder and the Thunder Trail
Standalone Books
April Kane and the Dragon Lady
The Lone Wolf and the Hidden Empire
The Long Rider and the Treasure of Vanished Men
Nancy Craig and the Fire Opal of Guatemala
Peggy Parker Girl Inventor
Quiz Kids and the Crazy Question Mystery
Rex Cole Jr. and the Grinning Ghost
Sylvia Sanders and the Tangled Web
Patty O’Neal on the Airways
Sandra of the Girl Orchestra
The Son of the Phantom
Fighters for Freedom Series
This is a set of standalone books marketed under the name "Fighters for Freedom Series."
1. Sally Scott of the Waves, Snell
2. Barry Blake of the Flying Fortress, Du Bois
3. Nancy Dale, Army Nurse, Radford
4. Kitty Carter, Canteen Girl, Radford
5. Dick Donnelly of the Paratroops, Duncan
6. Norma Kent of the WACS, Snell
7. March Anson and Scott Bailey of the U.S. Navy, Duncan
8. Sparky Ames and Mary Mason of the Ferry Command, Snell
9. Punch Davis of the U.S. Aircraft Carrier, Snell
Saturday, August 6, 2022
The Whitman Book Dilemma Part 1
I recently took a careful look at the books published by the Whitman Publishing Company of Racine, Wisconsin. The Whitman books have been problematic for the moderators of the Facebook group, Collecting Vintage Children's Series Books.
All traditional series published by Whitman have always been fine for the group. Some examples are series like Trixie Belden, Robin Kane, Kim Aldrich, Troy Nesbit, and many others. That has never been in question.
We also have a firm guideline on the television authorized editions, which is that we do not allow them. Everyone loves the television authorized editions, but accepting those books into the group would give the appearance that the group is a general nostalgia group. We must be careful.
We have allowed some of the Whitman Authorized Editions from the 1940s, and this has been central to our problem.
17 years ago, I created a page about the Whitman movie star books from the 1940s. My page only featured the female movie stars. The page was inspired by an article that was published in the August 2000 issue of The Whispered Watchword newsletter: "Whitman 1940s Movie Star Books for Girls" by Betsy Caprio Hedburg. That is why I only covered the female movie stars.
Three movie star books feature men.
John Payne and the Menace of Hawk's Nest (#2385), 1943
Gregory Peck and the Red Box Enigma (#2305), 1947
Van Johnson: The Luckiest Guy in the World (#2324), 1947
Whitman Movie Star Authorized Editions
I have added the three books featuring men to the list of titles. I made a few edits to the text of the page so that the author information would include the three additional titles. I also purchased copies of the books so that I could scan the jackets and add them to the cover art gallery.
In the Collecting group, we always accepted posts about the movie star books of the 1940s, but this caused an inconsistency due to us not accepting other authorized editions. Some of the other authorized editions could be okay as well, but others definitely do not fit. Since the moderators have not read most Whitman books, making a fair decision is a real problem.
The movie star books are part of the Whitman 2300 set from the 1940s. The Whitman 2300 set contains a wide variety of children's books.
We have not been in agreement with how far to go. A simple solution would be to allow the entire 2300 set, but many of the books are outside of the scope of the group and would cause some members to think the group is a general children's book group. For that reason, we cannot allow all 2300 books.
The book is not exhaustive, so many Whitman books are not in it. This is why advanced collectors tend to criticize books like it, but I still find these books to be a great jumping-off point. Nothing is wrong with using an imperfect or incomplete book as a place to get started.
Consider my website, Series Books for Girls. Most series that exist are not covered on my site. Does that make my site a bad source? I think my site is a good source for what it covers, but series fan enthusiasts must supplement with other sources.
I found two websites that list Whitman titles and used those to help me group the books.
Whitman's Authorized Editions/Authorized TV Editions
Whitman Juvenile Books
The "Whitman Juvenile Books" page has some phantom titles listed that do not exist.
A complete source listing all Whitman books does not appear to exist, but combining these sources enabled me to create lists of the different types of Whitman books. My lists will follow in my next post on this subject.